Little known witnesses: is everyone a liar? - Charles Thomson

Learn the truth about Michael Jackson's unhealthy interest in young boys.

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Little known witnesses: is everyone a liar?

This article was originally posted on Desiree listen. The blog is no longer available online. Full credit goes to the original author.

This article will be archived on this site so people can read and freely make up their own minds without interference from Jackson's misinformation troll factory.
Seeing the myriad group of workers that eventually spoke out against Michael Jackson (the so-called "Neverland Five", the Hayvenhurst bodyguards, the Lemarques, the Quindoys, Blanca Francia, Charli Michaels, late PR man Bob Jones, etc.), it is certainly a fair assumption to make that if any pedophilia occurred at Neverland, his employees were sure to have seen it.

This is not to say that everyone on Michael Jackson's payroll 'revealed all'--quite the contrary; Michael still had many handsomely-paid cheerleaders--but a decent amount of them did claim to witness reasonably suspicious behavior, even so much as molestation.

But, given the discourse regarding Michael's alleged boy-loving indiscretions within the fan community, many, if not most, of the individuals above are seen as liars, peddling salacious stories to tabloids for small fortunes at Michael Jackson's expense.

If I am allowed a brief diversion, selling stories to the tabloids is not a credibility killer. Not even in the slightest.

What does annihilate credibility is lying.

Regardless of what Michael's defenders think they know about these Neverland workers, we do not know--either way--if they were simply dispensing fibs! Ralph Chacon reportedly passed not one, but, two polygraph tests over the things he claimed to have seen.

However, the fact Michael Jackson never sued any tabloid that reported the stories of these workers is certainly telling. He could have cited libel but he did not. That gives me cause to believe them.

While browsing and reading court documents on the Santa Barbara County website, I discovered the motion submitted by District Attorney Tom Sneddon regarding the so-called 'prior sexual offenses' committed by Michael Jackson.

Not surprisingly, he lists most of Michael's 'special friends' as having been victims of sexual abuse: Jonathan Spence, Jimmy Safechuck, Wade Robson, Macaulay Culkin, Brett Barnes, and, of course, millionaires Jordie Chandler and Jason Francia.

It should be noted that all, except the latter two, disavowed any notion of having been molested by Michael Jackson.

Nevertheless, the alleged victimization of these boys is based upon the testimonies, depositions, and/or police interviews of former Michael Jackson employees, all of whom were listed as potential witnesses in the State's case.

As I read the document, spotting many familiar names, I was surprised to notice employees most fans had never heard about as having spoken against Michael, or, at least, confirming the easily recognizable fact that Michael Jackson had a 'thing' for young boys.

Among these former employees was Jolie Levine.

As a testament to her proximity to Michael Jackson, her name appeared in the production credits of his Bad album:
(As an interesting aside, Mary Coller, appearing just above Levine, also gave testimony about Michael's boy-loving!)

Page 260 of the paperback edition of Michael Jackson: Unauthorized goes into more detail about Levine's job description:
Jolie Levine had been in the record business for seven years--first as an executive at Qwest Records, then as a production coordinator on the Bad album--when Michael hired her to be his secretary in mid-1987. For the next two years Levine kept track of his schedule and his appointments, took his phone calls, served as his liaison with accountants, attorneys, managers--in short, all the duties of an executive secretary.

Levine was also called upon to run personal errands for Michael--to buy him clothes, household items, and,  frequently, gifts for his friends.... [O]ften she was dispatched by Michael to buy toys for the young boys he had befriended.
Basically, Levine was a secretary who dealt with the typical goings-on of the Michael Jackson enterprise. She also joined Michael on his Bad Tour as his assistant.

According to Levine's summarized testimony as it appeared in Sneddon's motion, Michael exhibited the curiously correlative behavior he'd exhibited with all other parents of young boys: he became close to Levine's son and attempted to lavish Levine with expensive gifts.
I cannot help but wonder had Levine accepted Michael's gifts, instead of wisely turning down such gratuitous bribes, and became besotted with her wealthy and exceedingly famous employer, instead of wanting to maintain a professional relationship, could her son have been yet another "alleged" victim of sexual molestation?

Because that seems to be the pattern with so many parents of Michael's 'special friends': Michael sensed that they could be swayed, as many would be, by luxury items and spoiled them, all the while he surreptitiously molested their sons.

Perhaps Levine's wisdom, as we will see, was her son's best protection.

Also mentioned in the document was Levine's knowledge of the de facto sleeping arrangements Michael kept whenever he was with young boys.

Page 261 of Michael Jackson: Unauthorized:
Whatever city they were in around the world, Levine said, she would walk into Michael's hotel room and find her boss in bed with his young friend. There was always a second bed in the room, and it was, according to Levine and other witnesses, never slept in. When she saw Michael at the end of the day, her pajama-clad employer would be back in bed in his hotel room--again with his young companion.
It is well known by now that Michael Jackson shared his bed with young boys. The fans, of course, subscribe to the 'innocence' argument, saying Michael was reliving a lost childhood and 'sleepovers' were a necessary aspect of regaining one's lost youth.

Utter nonsense.

It should be noted many child stars never went on to share their beds with children and become the brunt of pedophilia innuendo and accusations they'd molested boys.

Even if a fan does not want to label Michael a pedophile, they can, at least, acknowledge the apparent need Michael had when it came to these sleepovers.

But Michael Jackson sleeping with Jimmy Safechuck was not the only suspicious thing Levine witnessed. Page 51 of Bob Jones and Stacy Brown's Michael Jackson: The Man Behind the Mask explains:
One of the oddest things that happened occurred at Paris' DeCrillion Hotel. Jolie Levine, Jackson's assistant at the time, found a bed sheet in the King's hotel bedroom. On it, Michael had drew a picture of Peter [Jimmy Safechuck] and himself. Also written on the sheet was what amounted to a love note to the boy. Worried that if a housekeeper got hold of the sheet, it could end up in the hands of the media or law enforcement, we had our secretary pack it, taking it with us. That sheet was the first tangible clue that Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, was up to no good with this young kid.
Jones went on to tell of how, while in Nice, France, Michael's then-manager, Frank DiLeo, found a hotel sheet "painted with human feces." I will make a wager this bed sheet was also 'packed up' by Michael's dutiful staff in order to conceal their boss' predilection for shit.

But after seeing these encounters (and undoubtedly many others), it is no surprise Jolie Levine went on to call Michael Jackson, while she was being questioned by police in 1993, a "chicken hawk", a slang term for pedophile.*

Levine, of course, reverted to the predictable Jackson spin and Code of Silence, disavowing her use of the term, as mentioned in a Los Angeles Times article at the time of the scandal:
Among other edited depositions filed Monday in connection with the lawsuit is one taken from Jolie Levine, who worked as Jackson's secretary for two years starting in 1987. Levine told the lawyers that she called Jackson a "chicken hawk," a slang term for a pedophile, when police interviewed her about the allegations against her former boss.

"And when you told that to the detectives or the police, you meant by that that Michael Jackson was a pedophile, correct?" asked Robert Turner, an associate of Feldman who also is representing the boy.

"I was caught off guard, angry, surprised," Levine said. "I didn't really mean saying that."
'Chicken hawk', it should be noted, is a very explicit term to level against another person. If Michael Jackson was so innocent and blameless of any wrong-doing against boys, as his legions of fans would have you to believe, why would Jolie Levine use such language?

Her protestations of being 'caught off guard', 'angry', and 'surprised' do not seem to cut it in my view!

The only reasonable explanation behind her use of such a word is that she thought Michael Jackson was a pedophile and was capable of molesting young boys.

Like Debbie Rowe calling Michael a 'sociopath' to detectives in 2004, I imagine Levine gushed to police, and calling her former boss a 'chicken hawk' felt long overdue, given what she'd experienced under Michael Jackson's employ.

Jolie Levine was Michael's secretary and his assistant. Unlike the Hayvenhurst bodyguards, Blanca Francia, and the so-called Neverland Five of ill-repute, she never sought stardom or publicity, if that is to be the standard measure of a Jackson detractor's truthfulness. She cooperated with police and told them what she'd seen as his worker.

That testimony just happened to include calling Michael Jackson--who slept with young boys and scrawled love letters on hotel sheets (in pen or feces or both)--a 'chicken hawk'. I find it hard to doubt her honesty.

Diverting a bit, I often wonder how many people, outside of his employees, have seen Michael Jackson display suspicious behavior with regard to young boys and 'special friends'.

Earlier this year, we heard an anecdote from Kiss' Gene Simmons, who believed Michael molested boys and claimed to know of a musician who quit after seeing boys go in and out of Michael Jackson's hotel room.

Naturally, Michael Jackson's fans descended upon the story and sunk their teeth into Simmons, sometimes leaving frighteningly hypocritical and ironic comments:

so thinketh a man so is he. Because that's something he would do so that's why he thinks Michael is that way, but we all know the truth.

Love you more Michael



JEALOUS PIECE OF CRAP. I wonder how many little girls he has raped that dirty a**hole.


Thank you everyone for your hearty rants! i read this yesterday and felt so terrible, but i didn't want to bring any bad energy to the board, so i didn't post it. but all night i felt sick after reading it.

now i feel better! yes, this guy Gene has a serious sexual perversion if he feels the need to sleep with over 4,000 women and talk about it!! and i mean, ewwwwwwwwwwwwww. look at him!!!


I have always hate KISS and Gene Simmons but wow now I really hate him. He "bedded" more 4600 women and calls Michael a child molester. Have you seen him without the make up (or really even with)? I may catch slack for this one, but I bet a few of those supposed 4600 women may not have been willingly. And a few had to be blind. All the women Gene ever slept with-supposedly-were disease ridden groupie wh0re$ that would blab to anyone that would listen that they had sex with Gene. While Michael was always in the company of true ladies that did not kiss and tell.......and their IQ's were probably more than Gene and any given bimbo of his combined too.

Jealous much Gene??


wow, this is one jealous messed up sick idiot who has some serious issues. you can bet he is getting a message from me.
I realize these comments are ancillary but fan psychosis is often too funny to pass up. Of course, anyone who says anything negative about Michael Jackson is either a pervert in their own right or utterly jealous of the man's success!

Yes, we shall forget Kiss was one of the biggest rock bands of the 1970s and Gene Simmons is a legend to fans of classic rock.

It was a little later that one of Michael's guitarists, Jennifer Batten, who'd worked with Michael on his Bad, Dangerous, and HIStory Tours, came out and supposedly disputed his claims.

I thought she left herself an interesting escape route, since ambiguity is the safe place of those out of The Know. From a Charles Thomson blog post:
Was it true, I asked her, that a musician had quit one of Jackson's tours while on the road?

"Number one," said Batten, "there's no truth to it. Number two, I would guess that it was somebody who got fired. Somebody who was embarrassed that they got fired and made-up a story."

But did any musicians ever get fired mid-way through a tour?

"No. Nuh-uh. No, there were a couple of people who got fired like a week before we took out on the road."
If any musician left Michael Jackson's employ, it could never have been because of moral scruples regarding Michael Jackson's conduct. It was because they were less than satisfactory at their jobs. I have a strong suspicion Batten did not know as much as she thinks she knows, not to mention her loyalties to Michael are  forged in titanium. He did pluck her from utter obscurity.

Interestingly enough, Batten revealed on her own accord that it is highly likely she knew very little about the goings-on with regard to Michael Jackson. According to an interview with Jackson fans on her website, she confessed Michael was quite distant and separate from her and other 'employees' on his tours:
“We were looking at things in a shop when MJ came up behind us (Sheryl and her) and started talking to us. It surprized us because we'd only seen him surrounded by security whenever we were out with him and never bothered trying to get close.” ....

“There were 100 people on the tours and we took up 3 different hotels for the most part.” ....

“I was an employee along with 5 other musicians. We didn't socialize much outside of rehearsals but would do a group prayer before every show.” ....

“He'd review rehearsal tapes and make suggestions for changes to the musical director.”
Note, in particular, that Jennifer Batten states three different hotels were used during one tour, which is suggestive of a pattern Michael could have used while touring.

Is it not possible that the musicians saying Jackson had boys going in and out of his room, as Gene Simmons suggested, had shared a hotel with Michael but not Batten? It certainly is!

It is true: Simmons was not on tour as Batten had been; however, knowing the revelations as reported by Jolie Levine of Michael Jackson sleeping with Jimmy Safechuck every night in every city, not to mention Batten herself acknowledged the disconnect between Jackson and his staff, it is unlikely that the musicians with whom Simmons conversed were fibbing out of thin air. They'd had to seen something that Batten would not necessarily be able to refute.

Is it really unfathomable that Simmons, knowing by proxy Michael Jackson's boy habits, would, like Levine, think Michael was a pedophile?

I don't think so at all.

Gene Simmons, however, does not count as a witness since even the best connections in Tinseltown amount to nothing more than heresay.

James Hudnall is a more convincing bystander.

Hudnall wrote of his own encounter with Michael Jackson entitled, "My Disturbing Michael Jackson Experience" only one day after Michael died. He dates the 'experience' as being from 1993. Curiously enough, his brush with Michael Jackson included Jordie Chandler.

The tale is disturbing. I will paste some of it here:
Coincidentally, I was living in Encino, California in 1993. The Jackson family lived not far from me. I would see Joe Jackson at the supermarket or Randy at the car wash. But I never expected to meet Michael. About once a week I would go over the hill to Golden Apple Comics on Melrose. It was owned by a friend, the late Bill Liebowitz, and I also had a bunch of friends who worked there. They told me Michael was a big customer. He would go there with a group of kids and buy them whatever they wanted. He would often spend thousands on those days....

Everyone I know who knew him said he was a very nice guy, kind of quiet and he did a lot with charity. No one had a bad thing to say about him. But I did detect a certain reluctant vibe when discussing Michael with my friends at the store. They didn’t say why, but they felt he was weird. And this is from people who worked at a store on Melrose in L.A.

So one day I came in the store and one of my friends told me Jackson was in the store. And there he was, over by the comics rack. He had his arm around someone like he was on a date. That someone was Jordy Chandler.

I walked over to the long racks and pretended not to notice them. Jackson had his people with him including his driver. That driver was later a witness against Jackson in his trial.

Jackson was whispering in Jordy’s ear and they were acting totally like people on a date. It was not the kind of behavior a couple of straight guys do together. Then they went back in the store in the employee area and disappeared. They were gone for a half hour. I stuck around and talked to my friends, just shooting the breeze. I assumed Jackson left by the back door to avoid people. But Bill the owner asked me if I wanted to meet Michael Jackson, and I said, sure.

Jackson reappeared, and left the store. I went out there with Bill and he introduced me. Jordy had detached from Michael and went to the black SUV. I didn’t shake hands with Jackson, I only got to exchange pleasantries. But I noticed something, when I tried to look him in the eyes, he had this very evasive…almost crazed look. Like someone who had just committed a crime and didn’t want anyone to see them. It was weird.

I’ve met a lot of famous celebs and have never seen them as anything other than people. People who work in the entertainment industry, which I was doing at the time myself. So I’ve been very laid back in these encounters. So I know it was nothing I did that made him look at me like that. I thought, “Man, is he paranoid or what? Maybe he’s on something.”

After they took off, I went back in the store to buy some comics and I asked one of my friends what they were doing in the back room for so long. He said Michael and Jordy were in the bathroom for a half hour.


I said, huh? He said that’s not unusual for him.

Now, I don’t know what they did in there, but it was a small one-person bathroom. And I can only think of a couple reasons two people would go into a small bathroom together. One of the nice reasons is they were helping the other with their costumes. He wasn’t wearing anything that out of the ordinary. So that leaves the other two reasons, since we can assume Jordy is potty trained at 13. Sex or drugs.

When the story about the molestation broke a few months later, that pretty much made up my mind which reason it was.

A lot of people say Michael Jackson did not molest kids. Maybe not. But I have a hard time believing it.
It was not unusual for Michael to be in the bathroom for half an hour with the young male friends he'd bring to the comic book store?

Certainly telling.

Hudnall was attacked in the comments' section but defended his story to the naysayers:
ElaineC said:

I'm kind of surprised with a story like this to tell that you were not subpoenaed for the trial. Did you consider contacting the prosecutors in the case?

James Hudnall in reply:

I did, but when th (sic) trial was going on they seemed to have plenty of evidence. But they screwed up. Further, I would have had to involve my friends at the store, and the owner, and they would probably have hated me for that. I often think I should have got involved. But I was not even living in California when the trial started. I did post this story on my blog back at that time, though. It was not a secret I kept. I told a lot of people.

Burrrbank said:

This is a creepy, 16 year-old, one-sided, unverifiable story best left in your memory. You couldn't have known then the name of any child Michael Jackson was with, but it sure is luridly sensational to claim it in this pathetic grab at fame at the expense of a dead man. The story is unfit for this site.

James Hudnall in reply:

I don't expect any fame from this nor do I want it. I just feel it should be told because people need to know the truth

David S said:

What kind of people regularly witness a grown man and a child spending extended time in a single stall bathroom, and do nothing about it? Apparently the same kind that hangout in Hollywood comic book stores. Quite the paradise you've made for yourselves out there. City of Angels my ass.

James Hudnall in reply:

I didn't see them go in. I saw them go in the back room. The bathroom was back there but a wall blocks you from seeing it in the front of the store. Reread the story. Someone who worked there told me they went in teh (sic) bathroom and they did that often. This was after they had already left the store.

James Hudnall said:

To clear up some confusion some people are having with this story: I did not know who Jordy Chandler was at the time. I did not know how old he was. He looked like he could have been 15 or so to me. I also didn't know at the time what we all "know" now, because this was before any molestation charges ever surfaced against Michael. So I had no reason to think that is what he was up to. I just got the feeling he was after the events of that day. When the molestation charges broke, it solidified my suspicions.

But at the time, I had no reason to react as some people thought I should have. I mean, Jackson was a weird guy who acted like a kid. He had a lot of people fooled into accepting such strange behavior with a shrug. It wasn't until after all the stories came out that people started being creeped out by him. Until that point he was just Michael.
If his story is to be believed (and I do believe him), Hudnall represents yet another 'onlooker', another silent witness stifled because all they have is a gut-based 'reasonable suspicion'.

Like Levine, Hudnall--after what he saw--believed Michael Jackson was a 'chicken hawk', a child molester.

And this all goes to the main point of this meandering blog entry: is everyone a liar?

Michael Jackson fans' reactionary position is to label everyone a liar if they say anything negative about Michael or err on the side that his conduct with little boys was criminal. But that is more than a little naive.

So what are the rules fans uphold when determining the truthfulness of a Michael Jackson naysayer? Do they have to have not sold a story to the tabloids? Do they have to have not lost a lawsuit against Michael Jackson?

If either choices reflect the 'rules', the believability of both Jolie Levine and James Hudnall seem pretty solid.

Gene Simmons, who was conspicuously out of The Know regarding Michael Jackson's affairs, still resides in Hollywood and still frequents celebrity circles. Perhaps the musicians to whom he refers simply slipped him information through the proverbial grapevine: Michael Jackson was sleeping with young boys during his tours.

But how untruthful is that really? Is it totally incomprehensible?

Did he not share a bed with Brett Barnes for an entire year while on the Dangerous Tour, according to Karlee Barnes' 2005 testimony?

Did Jolie Levine not testify to seeing Michael Jackson in bed with Jimmy Safechuck while on the Bad Tour?

Did Michael Jackson himself not reveal to the entire world he believed sharing a bed with an unrelated child was a 'beautiful thing'?

It seems, in my opinion, at least, that the likelihood of a so-called 'disgruntled' Jackson musician making up stories along the 'little boys going in and out of Michael's hotel room' tangent because he was let go is very slim.

I wonder how many other people exist with stories of Michael Jackson's pedophilia, those who have not spoken out, or written books, or sold stories to tabloids. Tom Sneddon's document linked earlier in this post mentions other little known Jackson employees.

But what would be the point of saying anything against the King of Pop? Michael Jackson got to exist in a world where families were given Rolls Royces, expensive jewelry, and checks in the millions in exchange for their sons' bodies. He could build an amusement park in his front yard, fill his house with candy and junk food, ply cancer patients with alcohol, and still be canonized as a saint--a Great--upon death.

Because he made Thriller and could moonwalk.

The anecdote of a lowly secretary would mean nothing to the thousands of fans trying to 'vindicate' Michael Jackson; lesser still is that of a little known blogger.

Because everyone is a liar, we know. Even with three accusations of child sexual abuse, two documented multimillion dollar payoffs (well, three if we count the $300,000 given to Ruby and David Martinez of Argentina as part of an ongoing payment plan), a jury trial wherein tons of clues to his alleged pedophilia were revealed--Michael Jackson can do no wrong.

The reality is there were many witnesses to Michael Jackson's abuse or alleged abuse of young boys. It is true that some of them sold stories to the tabloids and some of them were unsuccessful in their lawsuits against Michael.

However, does any of that really matter?

At least with Jolie Levine and James Hudnall it shouldn't; with them, there are two witnesses that can at least vouch for Michael Jackson's 'reasonably suspicious' behavior with young boys. I happen to find them unimpeachable.

* Interestingly enough, this term is the title of a documentary, Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys, which features the "man/boy love" advocacy group NAMBLA as well as assorted pedophiles.

It is about an hour long but provides a very interesting glimpse into the mind of pedophiles.

Again, why would you call someone a 'chicken hawk' if they did not exhibit the signs and symptoms of pedophilia? We can only wonder why Jolie Levine reneged on her previous choice of words.
© Facts Don't Lie. Pedophiles Do.
© Facts Don't Lie. Pedophiles Do.
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